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Post by mley1 on Dec 8, 2015 21:19:19 GMT -5
Never said Ruiz encouraged the Offender population increase. You inferred that the Ruiz stipulation was the reason for the big prison expansion of the 90's. And I believe I've shown that it was not, as I stated earlier. I was there, working for TDC during that time. Our agency and its employees went through a lot.
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Post by mley1 on Dec 8, 2015 21:21:58 GMT -5
The increase in prison population, due to changes in the laws, was the reason for the big expansion of the 90's,
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Post by corywensle on Dec 8, 2015 22:48:13 GMT -5
Bobo you said Units SHOULD have only been built in highly populated communities that could have supported staffing.
Do you think TDCJ WILL ever do this in the future, or will the politics of farm locations outweigh the benefits of building near highly populated communities?
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Post by accussedsnitchgp11 on Dec 9, 2015 1:59:57 GMT -5
I still say it had a big Impact on the expansion since one of the Major issues was Overcrowding....TDC tried several things and started expanding and changing housing under Ruiz Oversight continued until 2001
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Post by bobothebeaten on Dec 9, 2015 11:21:07 GMT -5
Bobo you said Units SHOULD have only been built in highly populated communities that could have supported staffing. Do you think TDCJ WILL ever do this in the future, or will the politics of farm locations outweigh the benefits of building near highly populated communities? Politics will always trump good policy. You should always build where staffing and infrastructure is already available. You don't build something and then wait for staffing to come or wait for the infrastructure to be built.
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Post by mley1 on Dec 9, 2015 12:57:17 GMT -5
I still say it had a big Impact on the expansion since one of the Major issues was Overcrowding....TDC tried several things and started expanding and changing housing under Ruiz Oversight continued until 2001 Stoddard, the Ruiz stipulation began when the system had less than 25000 inmates, and it was over crowded. So, they did build some prisons in the late 70's, and into 80-82 to accommodate the over crowding at that time . This small expansion was believed to have been sufficient. The prison population did NOT explode due to the Ruiz stipulation. It exploded due to changes in sentencing laws, that occurred AFTER the Ruiz stipulation was decided. And, as a result of this population explosion the big expansion occurred in the 90's. We increased our prison population by 100,000, or more AFTER the Ruiz stipulation was decided. Bless your heart man. I know this may seem hard to understand. But, it's simple really.
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Post by mley1 on Dec 9, 2015 12:59:50 GMT -5
Bobo you said Units SHOULD have only been built in highly populated communities that could have supported staffing. Do you think TDCJ WILL ever do this in the future, or will the politics of farm locations outweigh the benefits of building near highly populated communities? Politics will always trump good policy. You should always build where staffing and infrastructure is already available. You don't build something and then wait for staffing to come or wait for the infrastructure to be built. Yea, but you and I both know that prisons will be located due to politics every time. Some politician will want his name on the prison, or want it in his jurisdiction to show his constituents what a great guy he is, and how much he cares about their economy. And, none of it is sound security practice. It's nothing but politics.
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Post by mley1 on Dec 9, 2015 13:02:04 GMT -5
Hell, look at my unit. It was named after Carole S. Young. She wanted to ensure pregnant female inmates had a safe place to be, and were near UTMB so their babies would get good care. She was instrumental in getting our unit placed where it is. And, the land was donated to the state. At least that's my understanding of our unit. We got a big portrait of Mrs Young in our lobby too.
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Post by mley1 on Dec 9, 2015 13:14:27 GMT -5
I still say it had a big Impact on the expansion since one of the Major issues was Overcrowding....TDC tried several things and started expanding and changing housing under Ruiz Oversight continued until 2001 Stoddard, the Ruiz stipulation began when the system had less than 25000 inmates, and it was over crowded. So, they did build some prisons in the late 70's, and into 80-82 to accommodate the over crowding at that time . This small expansion was believed to have been sufficient. The prison population did NOT explode due to the Ruiz stipulation. It exploded due to changes in sentencing laws, that occurred AFTER the Ruiz stipulation was decided. And, as a result of this population explosion the big expansion occurred in the 90's. We increased our prison population by 100,000, or more AFTER the Ruiz stipulation was decided. Bless your heart man. I know this may seem hard to understand. But, it's simple really. I would add that they also increased the number of officers in the early 80's to accommodate the required officer/inmate ratio stipulated in the Ruiz case. That's how I got hired on in 82. The issue of the building tenders was addressed January 1 of 1983. We were told we could no longer use our building tenders. When we stopped using them, and put them with the general population all hell broke loose. Several got killed, and the gang wars started. The prison population still hadn't exploded. Then came changes in the sentencing laws with the tough on crime politicians, and the war on drugs. That's when our prison population exploded, and the NEED for more prisons caused the prison expansion in the 90's. Stoddard I was there back then, worked and lived through all that stuff in TDC. There are a few of us left, not many, that still work for TDCJ. I got a few on my shift that were there back then. One friend of mine on our shift started back in '79. One other was in my academy class. I believe he and I are the last that are left out of our class.
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Post by accussedsnitchgp11 on Dec 9, 2015 19:01:41 GMT -5
It is all one big Circle...If you read some of the complaints and the reports you can almost replace any year with today's date...
Staffing Levels...Did you read any of the papers?
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Post by mley1 on Dec 10, 2015 12:44:07 GMT -5
It is all one big Circle...If you read some of the complaints and the reports you can almost replace any year with today's date... Staffing Levels...Did you read any of the papers? Yes. And, you're right. It is one big circle. History tends to repeat itself. For a while you'll have tough on crime folks running things. Then, for a while, you'll have the kinder and gentler crowd running things. Right now, we are in the kinder and gentler stage again. It's interesting to me that the tough on crime crowd has suddenly disappeared, and now they are looking hard at the poor babies in seg. The same poor babies that were killing themselves in the mid 80's are now thought to be rehabilitation compatible. The feeling is we MUST do SOMETHING to make them ready for society. It's all a bunch of horseshit. Those bastards will be killing each other again.
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Post by mley1 on Dec 10, 2015 12:46:00 GMT -5
And, the sad part of everything is that most the decisions made aren't out of what's best for security, or society. The decisions made are being made because the politicians think it'll make them look good.
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Post by crosstimbersokie on Dec 20, 2015 3:35:29 GMT -5
BTW, the Ruiz stipulation took effect in the late 70's and early 80's. The prison expansion occurred during the early to mid 90's. The two are NOT related. And remind us what happened to standards when expansion happened. And it happens to every agency that expands on a grand scale. In 1991 I was working for the Oklahoma DOC when I applied for the feds. The feds called me for an interview in Feb. '92 and I didn't hear anything afterward, so I applied to TDCJ in April '92. On May 7th I reported to Huntsville for testing and interview. Back then they measured your wrists to determine your frame size. If your wrist was a certain circumference, then your ass could be a certain circumference. My ass fit within my wrist so TDCJ hired me in mid July. I was to report to the academy at Gatesville on Aug. 3. Oklahoma DOC wanted me to return to my prison and work the last day of July and out process. It was then that HR informed me that a lady from the feds had called several times looking for me. I returned the call and was told they wanted me to start work in El Reno, OK on Aug. 10th. So I returned to East Texas and hauled all of my stuff back to Okla. Anyway, before I wondered off of topic I intended to point out that TDCJ once had height & weight standards before they became desperate for bodies due to G.W. Bush and the TX legislature trying to put a prison in every town.
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Post by corywensle on Dec 20, 2015 11:23:58 GMT -5
I wonder if private prisons could ever take over or hold a majority of Texas Inmates.
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Post by bobothebeaten on Dec 21, 2015 10:24:11 GMT -5
I wonder if private prisons could ever take over or hold a majority of Texas Inmates. Not in our lifetime, but I can see the retirement plan being eliminated and state employees being required to enter into 401k's.
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