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Post by mley1 on Feb 11, 2016 20:10:07 GMT -5
I hear this complained about often, fair duty post rotation. A CO will complain it's not fair that they work a duty post more than once or twice during their work cycle. They'll whine that it's not fair that someone else gets to work a certain duty post, and they don't. They'll complain that the lieutenant is just not FAIR in how they assign duty posts.
So, what's fair? Why do we need to be fair? Does policy require fairness in duty post assignment? What criteria does a lieutenant have to follow, according to their post orders, when they make duty post assignments? And, last but not least, what have YOU done to make yourself a better officer, so you CAN be assigned to all the different duty posts?
I have my feelings on all the answers to these questions, and I know what policy says. I want to hear from the masses. What are your opinions on the questions I've posed?
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Post by accussedsnitchgp11 on Feb 12, 2016 0:39:53 GMT -5
Loaded Question...
"What have you done to make yourself a better officer?" What can an officer do besides show up to work, rarely if ever called in...requested training, Worked their butts off. Read and learned policy....I requested many times to get extra training.
If a LT or SGT wants a Big Boob Blonde Sweetie or their Beer drinking Buddies on their Desk everyday they can. Criteria..you gotta lie for them and cover their asses..
I always said to be fair...The Co's Name should go on Bingo balls and in turn out, start with the first duty post and start pulling Names..
When 3 Gate rotated to 3 Desk..I never got 3 Gate.. When 3/4 Rec Boss rotated with 4 Desk... I never got 4 Gate.. When 7 Gate rotated with 7 Desk..I never got 7 Gate.. When 7/8 Rec rotated with 8 Desk...I never got 7/8 REC When 3 Gate and 3/4 REC Started Switching..I got it 1 Time a Block When 7 Gate and 7/8 Gate started switching I got it 1 time a Block.. For a Long Time I worked only Medium Custody.. I never got to work an Air Conditioned Position on Shift...
When I was in AD SEG and they had enough people and they had to provide a Second on Hwy Gate for Visitation..I got it every Sat and Sunday I worked (irony now that I look back since we never got a Break, no one would rotate with us, but GP Rotated their People.) When I got assigned to GP I never worked HWY Gate on Visitation because they said I wouldn't know what to do...hahaha. That was a PST spot...and I wasn't PST qualified...
At One Time I was told to be on PST you had to be CO V and have qualified from a "Tower" on the Range....Never saw any of them in in-service do that when they were in my class at in-service and I out shot them consistently..I saw plenty of CO "nothings" who were rank buddies get it.
I was told once I couldn't work a Desk because I needed to know how to answer a phone...I looked the SGT and Said.."I was in the Army assigned to the S2 shop, everytime I answered the phone I had to say " Battalion S2 Shop 1st Battalion 7th Infantry Regiment 3rd Brigade 3rd Infantry Division Graves Kaserne Aschaffenburg Germany, this line is unsecure, this is Private First Class Stoddard speaking. How May I help you sir or Mam? I think I can pick up the Phone and Say 3 Desk, Officer Stoddard speaking...." oddly all I got was a Dumb look and no reply ! !
There was a Story about at one time..that there were teams on Allred...so lets say they started on 3 Bldg one month..One Day 1 ...Team 1 worked A Pod...Team 2 worked B Pod..Team 3 Worked C Pod..an Team 4 worked Desk...Day two Team 1 worked B Pod and everyone moved to next spot...That way they worked all 4 Places in a Block...The Next Block they Moved to 4 Bldg and rotated like wise...Then 7 then 8..
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Post by mley1 on Feb 12, 2016 10:24:55 GMT -5
I hear ya Snitch. I want somebody to show me where in policy it says the agency has to be fair about duty rotation. Lets see how smart some of our members are. Where in any of our policy's does it say the lieutenant/captain has to be fair when he or she makes out the duty roster? What are they SUPPOSED to consider?
Here's a true story, that happened to me. It was a long time ago, I only use it as an example for the youngsters in the crowd. I worked on Ramsey 1, 1982. I was a rookie, fresh out of the academy and high school, 18yrs old and so wet behind the ears they were dripping. I screwed up working the kitchen back dock. The LT put me on a picket. I stayed working that single picket not for a day, or even a week. I worked that picket for a solid month, every work day. I didn't complain. It was my punishment, penitence for screwing up when I shouldn't have. I understood why the LT did what he did. After the month, I went to him. I asked him permission to come back into the building, and I promised him I wasn't gonna screw up like that again. You see, back then, the LT's and SGT's got respect. They had some power. The wardens backed them up. And, I learned my lesson. Back then it was shameful and embarrassing to be punished like I was, and the lesson was learned well. The LT did his job well. He let me back in the building. And, I did the best job I could for him. I got tough, sucked it up, and did my job. Whining cry babies were sent down the road to another profession back then. We had no use for them, and they were not tolerated.
So, can anyone tell me where in policy it says they have to be fair when they make your duty assignment?
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Post by mley1 on Feb 12, 2016 11:01:20 GMT -5
Loaded Question... "What have you done to make yourself a better officer?" What can an officer do besides show up to work, rarely if ever called in...requested training, Worked their butts off. Read and learned policy....I requested many times to get extra training. You're right, it is a loaded question. I've seen officers who will do the bare minimum, and then complain because they don't get assigned to a choice or preferred position. Here's a few things to think about. As a supervisor, I would have to evaluate each of the employee's under my charge. What I mean by that is, I'd have to look at their strengths, weaknesses, temperament, even personalities. Supervisors want their shifts to run smooth as possible, with as little trouble as possible, and as safe as possible. Nobody, and I mean NOBODY, wants to work a shift where there's trouble and chaos all the time. Also, as a supervisor, I would have to keep in mind the goals of the unit for the day, the building schedule, tasks given by superiors....etc. So, when a supervisor looks at their roster, with all the names on it of their officers, they have to decide who to put where to accomplish all of their goals for that particular shift. It's a balancing act for supervisors. And, officer perception of their methods can raise or lower that particular officers morale, as it did in your case Snitch. Some supervisors are better than others at the balancing act. Some have certain methods that are easier for them to use, and they don't care how it appears. The bottom line is it's their ass on the line each day they make the shift roster. They have to answer for everything that happens on the shift. And, sometimes the shift supervisors superiors give them instruction on their shift assignments as well. Say, for instance, one officer files a complaint against another officer. Can that supervisor assign those two officers near each other? What if an officer gets a large amount of grievances filed on them from one particular pod? Should the supervisor assign that officer to that pod? What if there's a pod with dudes on it that are prone to killin on female officers? Should the LT assign a female officer to that pod? So, you see, there are all kinds of considerations that go into making a shift roster. The skills and abilities of the officer have to be considered. All sorts of things have to be thought about. Do supervisors have favorite people they like working with? Well, hell yes. That's human nature. As a supervisor would I want to work side by side an asshat who would run to the man if I screwed up a little? Hell no I wouldn't. I like working with people I can trust, people I can rely on, people I know who can take care of business. Lets be clear. NOBODY is perfect. We ALL make mistakes. Do I want to end up on the carpet for every little mistake? Hell no. Nobody does. Could this appear like I'm playing favorites sometimes? Yup, sure can. Is it against policy? I'm still waiting for someone to show where in policy it says I have to be fair. And, then, even once the LT gets his roster filled out it can change. Usually, shift supervisors will have the next days roster filled out the day before. However, when they come into work they find out they had several call ins. So, they gotta now make adjustments. Where those call ins were working now someone else has to take up the slack. And, then it may appear that the LT is picking on an officer when they work a spot more than two times a work cycle or something. At any rate, these are just some things to think about regarding how, why, supervisors make their assignments.
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Post by army33wife on Feb 12, 2016 23:07:38 GMT -5
No policy on fair. What is fair anyway? Just an opinion. Post orders tell me to put officers where they are best. I believe in training but you can't fix stupid or change lazy. I am fed up with rotation crap. I get emails from administration about me not rotating a particular officer. HARASSMENT. I tracked the last 3 months and this one officer is rotated. Another officer went and reported that I ALWAYS put her at the strip gate. In last 3 months she was there 4 times. I put her there once, while the other Lt put her there three times. Showed the warden. Then said I was not rotating her. See she worked mobile 10 times in last 3 months. Guess what, she has not been back there since. Decided she will work mobile again once she catches up at the strip gate. She has 6 more ROTATIONS there before she sees 09 from me. These kids think they are entitled. I owe no one a damn thing
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Post by mley1 on Feb 13, 2016 9:42:11 GMT -5
No policy on fair. What is fair anyway? Just an opinion. Post orders tell me to put officers where they are best. I believe in training but you can't fix stupid or change lazy. I am fed up with rotation crap. I get emails from administration about me not rotating a particular officer. HARASSMENT. I tracked the last 3 months and this one officer is rotated. Another officer went and reported that I ALWAYS put her at the strip gate. In last 3 months she was there 4 times. I put her there once, while the other Lt put her there three times. Showed the warden. Then said I was not rotating her. See she worked mobile 10 times in last 3 months. Guess what, she has not been back there since. Decided she will work mobile again once she catches up at the strip gate. She has 6 more ROTATIONS there before she sees 09 from me. These kids think they are entitled. I owe no one a damn thing Can I get an AMEN, and an AMEN!!! Right on the money answer. I'm gonna tell ya'll my idea of fair. Come to work, give 110%, take care of business no matter where you work. A good lieutenant will use their staff to the best of their abilities. Training is important. Cross training is important. You want as much flexibility as possible with staff. But, some folks aren't suitable for all positions. Take me for example. I can work most all positions, except the control picket. I tried working the control picket and it was a disaster. I just ain't cut out to be a control picket boss. I'm much better with my feet in the trenches running and gunning. Luckily, we have some good lieutenants where I work. And, they recognized my short comings. So, they assignment me where I can use my abilities to the fullest. I'm grateful for supervisors like that. When you use your staff to the best of THEIR abilities the shift runs a lot smoother, and tasks get done much better, and smoother. Staff must also recognize their own short comings, and realize they are being rotated to use their abilities, or avoid some of their short comings until they get better trained.
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Post by army33wife on Feb 13, 2016 12:59:57 GMT -5
You are not a bad control picket boss. I would put you there again. I know you and I know you would do the best you could. Problem is when officers don't like the position they do all they can to be a problem child so that they are not put there again. I REFUSE to allow this. I place that officer there until they become the best or they are disciplined out the door for substandard duty performance. As a CO i was an overused workhorse as I watched lazy donkeys do nothing and still make the same pay. I make every effort,daily, to not do this to people like you and my other workhorses. You know me Marty and I try to praise the good and correct the bad. You are one that makes me happy when I see you in shift turn out. Thanks, from the bottom of my heart, for all you do not just for me but the agency and the role model that the young ones can look up to.
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Post by mley1 on Feb 14, 2016 0:02:53 GMT -5
You are not a bad control picket boss. I would put you there again. I know you and I know you would do the best you could. You are one that makes me happy when I see you in shift turn out. Thanks, from the bottom of my heart, for all you do not just for me but the agency and the role model that the young ones can look up to. Thanks! I appreciate your confidence in me. I know my limitations though. A man has to know his limitations. Army33wife, answered my question. There is NO policy that says duty assignments have to be fair, NONE NADA. The needs of the unit and the agency come first folks. Your ability, skills, knowledge, experience and sometimes gender(yes, I said it-GENDER) play a role in where you get assigned. I can hear the howls now. Marty said GENDER plays a role in duty post assignment!! That's GENDER DISCRIMINATION!! Yup, at a certain unit it does. Male officers do not get assigned to the strip shack due to female inmates being stripped, and male officers do not get assigned to female dorms or pods. So, gender plays a role at some units, and in some positions. It is what it is. I for one am very glad I don't have to strip search female inmates, or pat search female inmates.
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Post by accussedsnitchgp11 on Feb 14, 2016 3:23:58 GMT -5
I got a Question for you ...How do you know where an Officer is best just by looking at them? How do you know a person without speaking to them? And how do you train a person to make them better if you don't allow them to work a position or give them training materials to study?
Funny thing about TDCJ...Supervisors seems to believe you never had experience outside TDCJ...and Until they hold your hand your Dumb... Example: You gotta have experience to be on 5 Man Team...ummm where do you get that Experience? I imagine Army Infantry Basic and AIT wouldn't count as Experience since we had more training in Hand to Hand combat than I did in Pre-service and all my years of in-service combined...or You gotta be trained by TDCJ to run a Video Camera...ummmmm I was a Video/Photographer for my Unit in Germany but that wouldn't count either. I actually teach videography and photography.. or Only the Best shooters get assigned to a Tower...well I out shot plenty of "Tower Guards" every class...and that could not have had nothing to do with being on Varsity Rifle team in JROTC, and College ROTC, or Expert Marksmanship in the Army or not even the German Sniper School I had or French Commando Training I had...NAW They could tell just by looking at Me I couldn't shot that good.
While there may not be a policy about being fair....Do you think that There really should have to be a policy in writing....Lets forget that there are laws about discrimination and hostile work environments but ..TDCJ will find a way to get around it...Oh I just felt that the Officer was better suited to stand on his or her feet all day in the rain and snow than that Officer who gets to sit down in a Heated and Cooled duty post. He or she just doesn't have the experience and training...ummmm No we didn't give that officer any extra training now that you ask and they have just 3 months experience as a CO.
Army33wife you just basically admitted to harassing officers. You intentionally harass an officer until they bend to your way or wear them down and they eventually break and make mistakes. That is against the Law and is called a Hostile work environment but I imagine in a court a law you would not admit that. If the Officer was intentionally screwing up that right there is enough to legally write them up for substandard duty performance, you wouldn't need to harass them by placing them in the same position over and over. I am sure if you had someone looking for your faults and following you around observing your actions it wouldn't take long to find something to write you up on substandard duty performance. I have a video of a SGT escorting an Offender alone in the Local Hospital...Carrying Stack of Paperwork in one hand, a Large Slurpee in the other hand with a Pistol on the Hip and the offender walking Handcuffed up front...while the other officer was outside parking the Van.....You never know who might be in an ER room with a Camera.
Army33wife...so in regards to Duty Performance...according to law (NOT TDCJ POLICY)..When an Offender is placed in Solitary Confinement or Medical Observation Cells, how often are they supposed to be observed...No one else else this!
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Post by mley1 on Feb 14, 2016 10:29:54 GMT -5
I got a Question for you ...How do you know where an Officer is best just by looking at them? How do you know a person without speaking to them? And how do you train a person to make them better if you don't allow them to work a position or give them training materials to study? Funny thing about TDCJ...Supervisors seems to believe you never had experience outside TDCJ...and Until they hold your hand your Dumb... Example: You gotta have experience to be on 5 Man Team...ummm where do you get that Experience? I imagine Army Infantry Basic and AIT wouldn't count as Experience since we had more training in Hand to Hand combat than I did in Pre-service and all my years of in-service combined...or You gotta be trained by TDCJ to run a Video Camera...ummmmm I was a Video/Photographer for my Unit in Germany but that wouldn't count either. I actually teach videography and photography.. or Only the Best shooters get assigned to a Tower...well I out shot plenty of "Tower Guards" every class...and that could not have had nothing to do with being on Varsity Rifle team in JROTC, and College ROTC, or Expert Marksmanship in the Army or not even the German Sniper School I had or French Commando Training I had...NAW They could tell just by looking at Me I couldn't shot that good. While there may not be a policy about being fair....Do you think that There really should have to be a policy in writing....Lets forget that there are laws about discrimination and hostile work environments but ..TDCJ will find a way to get around it...Oh I just felt that the Officer was better suited to stand on his or her feet all day in the rain and snow than that Officer who gets to sit down in a Heated and Cooled duty post. He or she just doesn't have the experience and training...ummmm No we didn't give that officer any extra training now that you ask and they have just 3 months experience as a CO. Army33wife you just basically admitted to harassing officers. You intentionally harass an officer until they bend to your way or wear them down and they eventually break and make mistakes. That is against the Law and is called a Hostile work environment but I imagine in a court a law you would not admit that. If the Officer was intentionally screwing up that right there is enough to legally write them up for substandard duty performance, you wouldn't need to harass them by placing them in the same position over and over. I am sure if you had someone looking for your faults and following you around observing your actions it wouldn't take long to find something to write you up on substandard duty performance. I have a video of a SGT escorting an Offender alone in the Local Hospital...Carrying Stack of Paperwork in one hand, a Large Slurpee in the other hand with a Pistol on the Hip and the offender walking Handcuffed up front...while the other officer was outside parking the Van.....You never know who might be in an ER room with a Camera. Army33wife...so in regards to Duty Performance...according to law (NOT TDCJ POLICY)..When an Offender is placed in Solitary Confinement or Medical Observation Cells, how often are they supposed to be observed...No one else else this! Snitch, I've known you through these forums a long time man, longer than most. You've posted a lot about your experience at Allred. I have no real idea how you are to work with in person. I gotta tell you though that from what I read of your posts you are a very NEGATIVE person. You find fault with EVERYTHING about your work place. You place blame on EVERYONE, except yourself, for what happens to you at the work place. I know you've got hard feelings about being fired. I get that. You feel like you were treated unfairly. I get that. I also know it's next to impossible to get fired from TDCJ if you do your job. And, I'll be honest with you man. If you and I were at work and you came across with that type of negative attitude around me we would part ways rather quickly. I won't tolerate that negativity around me where I work. Negative attitudes bring negative results, and nothing but problems. You're welcome to post your negativity here. Hell, vent all you want here man. Here's a reality check for you though, NOBODY likes to work with a NEGATIVE person, except the person spewing all the negativity. They become loaners, or gather with other folks who do nothing but complain and find fault in everything. Then, they are MISERABLE TOGETHER. Most of the time people like that don't last in TDCJ. They get fired or quit. In your case, you got fired. BTW, Army33wife did NOT admit to harassing officers. The word HARASSMENT that she used in her post referred to the emails the admin had sent her, not any harassment of officers. Like most negative people you TWISTED her words to fit your preconceived idea's about supervisors. And, the rotation she referred to was an example of a 3 month length of time, or didn't you read that right. Here's a news flash for you. The unit is small, with a limited number of positions. So, folks will sometimes work the same type of position a few times in a six day cycle. Most of our supervisors, including her, try their best to rotate people fairly. Sometimes they gotta work folks in similar spots more than once in six days. Hell, I've worked certain positions sometimes 2 or three times in six days. It is what it is. I don't complain about it. I come to work, give 110% no matter where I work, and you won't hear me complain about my duty assignment to anyone. Maybe you didn't read my example of being placed on a picket for a solid month. I didn't complain. I came to work, and did my job, period. End of story. I love my job, no matter where I get assigned. That's how you last over 30yrs in a job Snitch. You certainly won't last being a chronic complainer, or being negative every day. So, what's next for you Snitch? Are you gonna attack me next cause I gave you a reality check? Are you gonna continue to attack Army33wife, someone you have no clue about? Let me ask you this, what has all your negativity gotten you? What has all of your complaining and whining gotten you with TDCJ? Has being negative worked well for you?
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Post by corywensle on Feb 14, 2016 13:08:25 GMT -5
Shit just got real....
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Post by corywensle on Feb 14, 2016 13:17:09 GMT -5
(a) A person commits an offense if, with intent to harass, annoy, alarm, abuse, torment, or embarrass another, he: (1) initiates communication by telephone, in writing, or by electronic communication and in the course of the communication makes a comment, request, suggestion, or proposal that is obscene; (2) threatens, by telephone, in writing, or by electronic communication, in a manner reasonably likely to alarm the person receiving the threat, to inflict bodily injury on the person or to commit a felony against the person, a member of his family or household, or his property; (3) conveys, in a manner reasonably likely to alarm the person receiving the report, a false report, which is known by the conveyor to be false, that another person has suffered death or serious bodily injury; (4) causes the telephone of another to ring repeatedly or makes repeated telephone communications anonymously or in a manner reasonably likely to harass, annoy, alarm, abuse, torment, embarrass, or offend another; (5) makes a telephone call and intentionally fails to hang up or disengage the connection; (6) knowingly permits a telephone under the person's control to be used by another to commit an offense under this section; or (7) sends repeated electronic communications in a manner reasonably likely to harass, annoy, alarm, abuse, torment, embarrass, or offend another. (b) In this section: (1) "Electronic communication" means a transfer of signs, signals, writing, images, sounds, data, or intelligence of any nature transmitted in whole or in part by a wire, radio, electromagnetic, photoelectronic, or photo-optical system. The term includes: (A) a communication initiated by electronic mail, instant message, network call, or facsimile machine; and (B) a communication made to a pager. (2) "Family" and "household" have the meaning assigned by Chapter 71, Family Code. (3) "Obscene" means containing a patently offensive description of or a solicitation to commit an ultimate sex act, including sexual intercourse, masturbation, cunnilingus, fellatio, or anilingus, or a description of an excretory function. (c) An offense under this section is a Class B misdemeanor, except that the offense is a Class A misdemeanor if the actor has previously been convicted under this section. - See more at: codes.lp.findlaw.com/txstatutes/PE/9/42/42.07#sthash.MYrmjRqP.dpuf
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Post by mley1 on Feb 14, 2016 13:34:47 GMT -5
What's your point Cory?
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Post by corywensle on Feb 14, 2016 13:50:55 GMT -5
My point is that a supervisor putting an officer at a particular post is not harassment.
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Post by mley1 on Feb 14, 2016 16:56:16 GMT -5
My point is that a supervisor putting an officer at a particular post is not harassment. I agree. Point taken.
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